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New Custom 4e Race - Requesting Assistance

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ShadoStahker	New Custom 4e Race - Requesting Assistance	Lead	[-]
Posts: 823 (07/12/08 00:26:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Alright. My first 4e game is going to be run by my fiancee. I've been the de facto GM for our group for a few years, so this is the first time in a while that I'll get to play a character. This also may be the last time I will be able to for some time, as I don't know how often she will want to GM in the future. As such, I'm attempting to make a memorable character. To do so, I find myself going back to prior memorable characters that I've played. Of all of them, two stand out, despite playing neither of them for more than 2 or 3 sessions. They are memorable to the point that my website is named after one. They have one thing in common. They were both Gully Dwarves. Now, for those of you who don't know Dragonlance, and don't know what a Gully Dwarf is, I give you the following description. From http://kencyclopedia.com/kender/roleplaying/3EGullyDwarves.cfm Gully Dwarves are among the most reviled races on Krynn. Of unknown origin (some say dwarves and gnomes, while others replace gnomes with humans), the Aghar are a dwarven subrace that has managed to eke out a meager existance wherever they can, mainly in refuse heaps and other places most civilized races would not care to touch. Due to this, they have a keen survival instinct and a foraging talent like no other. They may seem cowardly, running from most any danger, but corner a Gully and you will be in for a surprise. On the whole, though, Aghar are very stupid, with maybe 1 out of every 50 being able to count higher than 2. Nonetheless, Gullys are almost universally cheerful people. In any case, a Gully Dwarf is one of my main choices for a character for this game. I loved my first two (a CN Paladin and a Druid) and am seriously considering making another Gully Dwarf Paladin for my first 4e character. But WotC, in their foolishness, failed to include 4e stats for the Gully Dwarf! I know! It's incomprehensible! Which means I need to make my own. And so I come to you all. ---------------- Gully Dwarf (Aghar) RACIAL TRAITS Average Height: 3'6"-4' Average Weight: 100-140 lb. Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity Size: Small Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, Gullytalk (a pidgin language, incomprehensible to all but Gully Dwarves) Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Stealth (One of these may be replaced with Endurance) Dwarf Blood: Aghar are, in fact, Dwarves. Mostly. Technically. They count as Dwarves for all effects, at any rate. Cast Iron Stomach: +5 racial bonus on saving throws against poison. Sticks and Stones: Aghar gain a +2 proficiency bonus when wielding improvised weapons (both melee and ranged). Cornered: Aghar gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when adjacent to two or more enemies. Cower: Aghar can use Cower as an encounter power. Cower - Aghar Power As you cower back, you look so piteous that even ruthless enemies have second thoughts of striking you *Encounter Charm Immediate Interrupt Trigger: You are attacked by a creature. Effect: The attacking creature takes a penalty on their attack roll equal to 3 + your Cha modifier. If the attack misses, you can shift one square. ---------------- Thoughts? Comments? Too powerful? Not powerful enough? I am considering changing the Cornered bonus to damage, rather than attack. All the other racial bonuses (Dragonborn, Tieflings) are attack, but Cornered means that Aghar are especially effective against minions. Damage would show the viciousness of a cornered Gully Dwarf as well. What do you think? It does kinda make sense that Gully Dwarves are super effective at fighting off hordes of minions. Cower is somewhat stolen from a combination of the Halfling's "Second Chance" and the Ranger 3 "Disruptive Strike". Should it have the Charm keyword? Some of the ideas here were brutally ripped from: http://dragonlanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17052&page=1 ---------------- Alternative racial features: Cornered:** When flanked, Aghar gain a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls against the flanking creatures. Is this better? Worse? Far more situational, for sure, hence getting the damage boost as well. Perhaps too situational for a racial ability.
jsaving		#1	[-]
Posts: 679 (07/12/08 01:42:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	On the whole, I think your aghar race is well-balanced, but here are a few suggestions: * Ability scores - Do any of the PH races grant bonuses to two physical stats? If not, do the aghar survive despite their bad reputation because they're tough enough to sustain damage or because they're agile/wise enough to avoid being hit in the first place? Which is a roundabout way of saying, it would be interesting to replace the +2 CON bonus with a +2 WIS bonus. * Cornered - As written, an in-your-face melee attacker would frequently "corner" himself by moving into a cluster of enemies, which seems inconsistent with the aghar flavor text. It might be better to have this ability kick in when the aghar is flanked, which is probably the closest melee analogue to being cornered. Or if you wanted a more radical revamp of the ability, you could replace it with the eladrin's charm resistance and/or fey step. With different flavor text and perhaps somewhat more limited functionality, those abilities could nicely simulate the aghar's ability to avoid physical or mental capture.
ShadoStahker		#2	[-]
Posts: 824 (07/12/08 06:45:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks jsaving. Ability Scores - They survive due to a bit of both. No PHB races give bonuses to two physical stats, though I don't think it's a huge problem. Tiefling give bonuses to two mental stats, Humans give equal weight to physical and mental stats, and a number of the MM races give bonuses to two physical stats. (Kobolds have the same bonuses, for example.) While in 3e two physical ability scores was problematic, as they were used by everyone, it doesn't sem to be as big of a deal in 4e. But, primarily, I took this from the 3.5e Dragonlance sourcebook. In that, they recieved +2 Dex, +2 Con, -4 Int, -4 Cha. -- Cornered - Good point. I think the +1 to attacks and +1 to damage when flanked might be the way to go. Is that version too weakened? You give up a lot by being flanked. Does the +1 to damage make up for it? As for making it a "run away" ability, it doesn't quite match the flavour. Aghar run away, but when confronted, they fight like little demons. There is nothing quite so dangerous as a cornered Gully Dwarf, and that's what this is meant to represent. As for making it a charm resistance type of ability, I'm not sure. A bonus to Will defense wouldn't work, as the books the Aghar are from have one of them charmed by the mage. (They are not an incredibly mentally resistant race.) I had considered granting a bonus to AC and/or Ref while flanked, mitigating much or all of the advantage it grants. Is this what you meant? Or maybe just a +1 to Ref at all times? EDIT: I'm not completely sure it is inconsistent with Gully Dwarf behaviour, actually. A lot of the time, they will stumble around the battlefield, getting into a variety of situations they wish they weren't in. The bravest of them will indeed charge headfirst into battle, get surrounded, and then panic. But you do still raise a good point. I have also recieved the following suggestion from another board where I posted this: I suggest making your alternative for Cornered a racial Feat instead so you've got the best of all worlds (Rename it to "Gully's Last Stand" or somethin'!). Keep the bonus untyped and the attack bonus stacks with their Cornered racial ability giving them +2 attack and +1 damage when they're Flanked. They can be vicious critters when in a hole Thoughts? Last Edited By: ShadoStahker 07/12/08 07:08:20. Edited 2 times.
Neutronium Dragon		#3	[-]
Posts: 336 (07/12/08 21:20:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Cower is likely to be a problem with a Charisma based class. It's probably better to make this a flat bonus rather than trying to scale it. Making it a -4 would probably be about right, considering the halfling's Second Chance.
ShadoStahker		#4	[-]
Posts: 825 (07/12/08 21:52:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	True enough. The Ranger one is Wis, and Wis is a Ranger secondary/tertiary ability, but this ability is unrelated to class. Perhaps, like the Dragonborn (ability uses choice of physical ability), it could be 2+ Int, Wis, or Cha? Perhaps 4 should be the set value? I'm not sure. Anyone else want to weigh in?
jsaving		#5	[-]
Posts: 680 (07/13/08 17:01:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ShadoStahker wrote: No PHB races give bonuses to two physical stats, though I don't think it's a huge problem. Tiefling give bonuses to two mental stats, Humans give equal weight to physical and mental stats, and a number of the MM races give bonuses to two physical stats. (Kobolds have the same bonuses, for example.) While in 3e two physical ability scores was problematic, as they were used by everyone, it doesn't sem to be as big of a deal in 4e. But, primarily, I took this from the 3.5e Dragonlance sourcebook. In that, they recieved +2 Dex, +2 Con, -4 Int, -4 Cha. It is true that tieflings give bonuses to two mental stats, but the INT bonus is blunted to some extent by the fact that the tiefling's racial features encourage you to have a high DEX (which covers the same defense). The same isn't really true for your aghar. I'd also say DEX and CON are probably the two most useful stats in 4e -- not nearly as good as STR was in the old edition, but good enough that you probably don't want to give bonuses to both if you can avoid it. Regarding your cornered ability, all the variants discussed so far in this thread are fairly "situational" in the sense that encounters with multiple non-melee foes or even single bosses can't trigger it. I agree that being flanked is somewhat more situational than simply being in melee range of 2 foes, but the former seems more conducive to aghar flavor text than the latter even granting their willingness to go the extra mile when surrounded. An alternative idea might give them a modest bonus when bloodied (which is more likely than not to happen while surrounded), with a racial feat or two that might act as an immediate reaction when bloodied. I don't know that this option has a whole lot of flavor, but it would certainly be easy to adjudicate, and it wouldn't be nearly as situational as the other ideas under discussion.
ShadoStahker		#6	[-]
Posts: 826 (07/13/08 18:57:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	All good points. I'm sticking to the Dex/Con for now, though. Nothing else seems to make sense for them. Wis isn't a strong suit for the Aghar. I keep looking at the Kobold. As for Cornered, all good points, again. I found a Heroic feat in Dragon 364 today that is similar, and might be good to base it off of. Against All Odds req: Wis 13 If, at the start of your turn, three or more enemies are adjacent to you, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls until the end of your turn. Considering this, I don't think that +1 attack with 2 enemies is all that overpowered. Alteratively, they could just get this feat as a bonus feat. Thoughts?
Roalnd the Red		#7	[-]
Posts: 339 (07/14/08 06:02:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am thinking Cower should be an immediate interrupt that triggers "invisibility" and a shift. Flavor-wise their not invisible, everyone simply ignores them. Cornered looks ok with the bonus feat. I was thinking that cornered would be a cool power: Immediate trigger when any movement will trigger OA from enemies. Make a basic melee attack against all adjacent enemies and shift 3 squares. But then I read your last post, and thats probably simpler. If you did cornered as a power, cower would have trimmed.
ShadoStahker		#8	[-]
Posts: 827 (07/14/08 07:38:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Interesting stuff, Roalnd. So your suggestion for Cower would be: Cower - Aghar Power Encounter Immediate Interrupt Trigger: You are attacked by a creature Effect: You are invisible until the start of your next turn, and can shift one square. While neat, it is decidedly better than the Halfling "Second Chance" ability. Requiring an attack roll would balance it some, but doesn't really fit. Reducing the ability to being invisible against the attacker only is still more powerful than the Halfling ability. -- As for cornered, you're suggesting that they get "Against All Odds" as a bonus feat? Or are you saying the original looks good considering the bonus feat. Sorry, I'm just a little lost.
jsaving		#9	[-]
Posts: 681 (07/14/08 09:32:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think it's a mistake to view the aghar as a guy who is good at sneaking/hiding, and a guy who runs fast enough to get away from people, and a guy who amps up his effort when cornered, and a guy who has the physical fortitude to survive when others would falter. Flavor-wise, it would make more sense to narrow your focus a bit rather than trying to pack them all into a single race. And jettisoning some of these concepts from your aghar would provide clearer guidance on how to shape the racial features. I'm also not sure the kobold is such a great template for the aghar, actually. Most of the kobold char-op discussions peg it as overpowered due in part to the DEX and CON bonuses, and in part to other racial features (like the shiftiness one) that mesh especially well with DEX-based character builds. I don't thing your aghar writeup has the same problem, at least not to the same extent, but it is something to keep an eye on as you continue perfecting it.
ShadoStahker		#10	[-]
Posts: 828 (07/14/08 10:41:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hmm... you are correct. I think that I will replace Stealth with Endurance. They are much more known for their survivability than their stealth (though they keep out of the way nicely, the +2 bonus is unnecessary). I'm hesitant to drop the speed to 5, as I want them to be able to keep up with the larger races. But if it does seem overpowered, that's my next step. In any case, the three things they are known best for (that are mechanically representable): - Survivability (Skill bonuses, poison save bonus) - Cowardly (Cower ability, ties into survivability) - Vicious when cornered (Cornered) Sticks and Stones is a bonus for them, but is basically a nonability, as manufactured weapons are always better. I'm still not sure just how to handle Cornered. Does the race as presented still look overpowered with the skill bonus change? Should I drop them to speed 5?
Neutronium Dragon		#11	[-]
Posts: 337 (07/14/08 15:11:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Gnolls also have Dex/Con and I don't see anything about them being overpowered. Speed 5 is probably fine as long as you give them the standard "stays at speed 5 in heavy armor" bit that standard dwarves get. Being vicious when cornered is probably something which you can pass off as a roleplaying hook rather than tying a mechanic to it - that frees you from having to account for it in the stats themselves. This is especially true in that you have two powers which are at thematic cross-purposes - the guy goes into a frenzy when cornered, but then spends his time cowering piteously to seem less threatening? Umm... Dungeoneering and Stealth are fine as skills, though if you're keen on Endurance, I'd actually suggest giving them Endurance and Stealth. I do think that Cower should be made into a fixed penalty (-4 or -5) to prevent absurd scaling issues from occurring with high charisma scores. As an alternative, drop Cower and convert Cornered into a minor-action encounter ability which can be triggered when adjacent to two or more enemies and which gives an attack bonus then. This may actually be a better alternative because it's different, whereas Cower kind of overlaps with Second Chance on the halfling. Alternately, "when adjacent to an enemy and unable to move or shift away" - they're really cornered, either entirely hemmed in or Immobilized.
ShadoStahker		#12	[-]
Posts: 829 (07/14/08 19:11:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Good points, ND. Thinking about it again, Cower is the one that seems to always be given the most treatment, but is not an active thing. It's really a passive thing, where the Gully Dwarf just looks all piteous, until he freaks out while cornered. Only then do opponents take them seriously. I think making Cornered the power is the best idea. So let's see... Gully Dwarf (Aghar) RACIAL TRAITS Average Height: 3'6"-4' Average Weight: 100-140 lb. Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity Size: Small Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, Gullytalk (a pidgin language, incomprehensible to all but Gully Dwarves) Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Stealth/Endurance (I haven't decided yet, but I'd like to keep Dungeoneering for the survival aspects) Dwarf Blood: Aghar are, in fact, Dwarves. Mostly. Technically. They count as Dwarves for all effects, at any rate. Cast Iron Stomach: +5 racial bonus on saving throws against poison. Sticks and Stones: Aghar gain a +2 proficiency bonus when wielding improvised weapons (both melee and ranged). Cornered!: Aghar can use Cornered! as an encounter power. Cornered! - Aghar Power They may seem cowardly, running from most any danger, but corner a Gully and you will be in for a surprise. Encounter *Minor Action Personal Special: You must be bloodied to use this power. Effect:** Until the end of the encounter or until rendered unconscious, you get a +2 bonus to damage rolls and a +1 to Fortitude and Will defenses. Now, then, does Cower/Pitiful even need to be represented mechanically? I'm not actually sure it does. If it gave a bonus on AC, it would make a Defender's marking less effective. Perhaps as a bonus feat?
shadracht		#13	[-]
Posts: 478 (07/15/08 03:38:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would modify cornered! to be "Until the end of the encounter, while bloodied, you get a +2...". Otherwise someone could intentionally start a battle bloodied, trigger this, be healed immediately, and have a "free" set of bonuses. Note that in the PHB example, a power that works "while bloodied" will turn back on if you return to bloodied. Cthulhu for president! Stop choosing the lesser of the evils.
Roalnd the Red		#14	[-]
Posts: 340 (07/15/08 06:41:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I like Cornered as a power much better, with Shad's fix. Although I don't like it as a bloodied trigger. That doesn't feel cornered. I've always felt that aspect of gully dwarves was less a rage thing (which is how the latest version feels) than a desperate attempt to escape by inflicting pain. Like a cornered badger, it will get very vicious when cornered, but if the threat dies it's not on a rampage to seek out more threats. The ability as presented does just that mechanically: the gully dwarf is mechanically encouraged to keep seeking threats while bloodied and under the +2 damage. That seems great for a viking but not a Gully. If Gully Dwarves were MM entry what would it be? A brute? A controller? I see them as strikers basically. If they must fight, they hit and run. So cornered, IMO, should reflect that: hit and run. Lay down a surprising smackdown, then break free of being cornered. I stick by the flanking trigger, so the second chance ability of halflings is pretty close. I think cower could be simply a roleplay hook, but if your set on mechanics, perhaps Cower/Pitiful could be designed as: Pitiful/Cowering Stance - By looking pathetic and cowering in front of enemies, the Gully is able to move about the battlefield with impunity. Effect: The Gully Dwarf does not provoke an Opportunity Attacks while moving. This effect ends immediately after the Gully Dwarf attacks any enemy in an encounter. All other Opportunity Attack conditions still apply (Surprised e.g). That's effectively like 3E tumbling past enemies. Enemies can still choose to attack you (what BBEG would kill a pathetic wretch? All of them! lol) on their turn, but the ability evokes the sense of impunity I think you are trying to capture. You can still be purposefully sought out by enemies, but they simply don't take advantage of OA's against as you position yourself. A more powerful version would make ALL OA's ineffective until you actually attack an enemy, demonstrating your real threat. I think this also clears up the cross purposes of cower and cornered. You START cowering. It's the default stance. But you can leave that cowering stance and be a clear danger but not really in a frenzy. Last Edited By: Roalnd the Red 07/15/08 06:59:15. Edited 1 times.
ShadoStahker		#15	[-]
Posts: 830 (07/15/08 08:17:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would modify cornered! to be "Until the end of the encounter, while bloodied, you get a +2...". Otherwise someone could intentionally start a battle bloodied, trigger this, be healed immediately, and have a "free" set of bonuses. Note that in the PHB example, a power that works "while bloodied" will turn back on if you return to bloodied. The wording was taken directly from the Shifter writeup. But you're right, it is odd. @Roalnd - Nice! I really like that Pitiful version. Let's go with, then: Gully Dwarf (Aghar) RACIAL TRAITS Average Height: 3'6"-4' Average Weight: 100-140 lb. Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity Size: Small Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, Gullytalk (a pidgin language, incomprehensible to all but Gully Dwarves) Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Stealth/Endurance (I haven't decided yet, but I'd like to keep Dungeoneering for the survival aspects) Dwarf Blood: Aghar are, in fact, Dwarves. Mostly. Technically. They count as Dwarves for all effects, at any rate. Cast Iron Stomach: +5 racial bonus on saving throws against poison. Sticks and Stones: Aghar gain a +2 proficiency bonus when wielding improvised weapons (both melee and ranged). Below Notice: By looking pathetic and cowering in front of enemies, the Gully is able to move about the battlefield with impunity. Aghar do not provoke any Opportunity Attacks while moving. This effect ends immediately after you attack any enemy in an encounter. All other Opportunity Attack conditions still apply. Cornered!: When flanked or adjacent to 3 or more enemies, you get a +1 bonus on damage rolls. (Flanked is a good trigger, but I'd like to keep the simply "surrounded" there as well, so the following situation _\|_\|_\|_\|_ _\|x\|_\|x\|_ _\|_\|g\|_\|_ _\|_\|x\|_\|_ _\|_\|_\|_\|_ will still trigger it, despite nobody flanking. In almost all other "adjacent to 3 or more" situations, you are also flanked. Is that version a good compromise?) Last Edited By: ShadoStahker 07/15/08 08:41:22. Edited 4 times.
Roalnd the Red		#16	[-]
Posts: 341 (07/15/08 09:35:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah, I like that much better. I just realized its probably more elegant, and the default stance, that races provide abilities (features?) rather than powers as a general rule. I think you have a winner. Playtest that bad boy out. In a min-max sense, you will be using "Below Notice" to position yourself such that you are surrounded then attacking with the bonus damage. One problem though - this makes Gully's a great pick as a Defender like the Fighter. Move into "surrounded" position, Mark a target, Attack. Mark, Attack, etc.all with +1 damage. Although I guess an adventuring Gully Dwarf isn't really a cringing coward, he just knows how to play one real well, and uses "Big Folks" prejudice against them, so maybe its less a problem than I think. What about a Gully Wizard? While there is usually an optimized race for a class, racial powers should be universally useful. How does Cornered help a caster? Sure he gets a +1 damage, but surrounded by enemies is a huge negative for that measly +1. I still think a movement "escape" ability that does damage or increases damage is more in line with the concept. Forget the "fierce fighter in a corner" concept for a moment. Gully's avoiding combat, staying beneath notice, is their thing. Backed into a corner and fighting fiercely is something all races do. Its only noteworthy with Gully's because of their apparent cowardice. It takes people so off guard to actually see a Gully fight its like night and day. What if you simply used a more powerful version of "Below Notice" and nothing else? Never grant OA's of any kind to an enemy when not bloodied? Or maybe simply drop Cornered and allow Gully's to move THROUGH enemy spaces? I guess I am fond of movement, lol. Anyway, I think its a good version as you have it, but I don't see Gully "strikers" or "ranged controllers" as Gully PCs. For a homebrew, thats probably fine. For general dissemination it isn't.
jsaving		#17	[-]
Posts: 682 (07/15/08 10:33:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This version of the aghar seems flavorful and well-balanced to me. I do agree with Roalnd's point that the aghar will appeal primarily to frontline characters like rogues and fighters, but short of jettisoning one of the physical stat bonuses, there's no obvious way to address that issue. How about a version of the aghar with a level adjustment? That's one mechanic I'm sure everyone would welcome back to D&D with open arms...
ShadoStahker		#18	[-]
Posts: 831 (07/15/08 11:32:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah, the race will definitely appeal to Rogues, but it should. Ranger, perhaps, as well. Wizard and Warlock Gully Dwarves should be extremely rare, so I'm not worried about them. Cornered still helps the Wizard to get the people away from him. Especially with Close powers. But, no, it is more beneficial to melee classes. The appeal to Defenders is obvious. I'm not sure how to take that out. I don't want them to be completely immune to OAs. I'm willing to look into the "can move through enemy spaces" one, but when would it be active? All the time? Only while not bloodied? Until you first attack? I'm not sure. If the general consensus is that this version is flavourful and well-balanced, we might have a winner. Once we're done here, I might just drop it on the enworld boards, and see it get ripped to shreds. :P (The default stance for races, however, does seem to include powers. Aside from the Dwarf and Human, I can't think of a race that doesn't include a power. I think this is so that every race can actively do something "elf-y" or "tiefling-y". That doesn't mean we need one, however.)
jsaving		#19	[-]
Posts: 683 (07/15/08 12:26:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I wouldn't recommend adding torturous clauses that try to block any defender-ish use of aghar powers. If you decide the aghar shouldn't be as appealing to defenders, you should attack the problem directly by removing the CON bonus and replacing it with something else (presumably wisdom as the established lore seems to rule out intelligence or charisma). Or, you can simply say there isn't anything wrong with the aghar appealing primarily to defenders, and leave it at that.
ShadoStahker		#20	[-]
Posts: 832 (07/15/08 15:38:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah. I just don't want it to seem as if I'm building it specifically for my character (probably a defender, decided before I started building it) and no other. I don't think there's anything really wrong with it being attractive to defenders. I'm unsure how the Con bonus makes it more attractive to defenders, though. I think the bonus healing surge is more attractive to Rogues and Rangers, who have less. Coupled with the Dex bonus and Beneath Notice, I think this race is very attractive to those two, especially Rogue. Defenders get the most use out of Cornered!, but that's about it. The Dex bonus is less useful, especially in heavy armour. The rest is equally useful to most classes.

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